Decoding how diverse perspectives and people, along with regular password changes, can help keep you safe in a cyber world with Tennisha Martin

Welcome to AI Decodes the System, the podcast where we decode the complex systems of data, tech, law, and public policy for everyone to understand. I am your host, Amber Ivey, also known as AI. Today, we are joined by Tennisha Martin, the founder and Executive Director of BlackGirlsHack (BGH Foundation), a national cybersecurity nonprofit organization dedicated to providing education and resources to underserved communities and increasing diversity in cyber.

During the conversation, Tennisha shares her background in cyber and explains why she is passionate about getting more people interested in this field. She also breaks down what cyber is and describes ethical hacking in a way that even a two and seven-year-old can understand.

As technology continues to advance, cyber threats become more prominent, and Tennisha provides real-world examples of how these threats can impact our lives. She also discusses why she created Black Girls Hack and the gap she is trying to fill by providing knowledge and resources to help black girls and women break through barriers to careers in information security and cybersecurity.

For those interested in diving into cyber but may not know where to start, Tennisha provides some useful advice. Finally, we discuss why it's important for the listeners to understand how cyber works and impacts their lives.

Before we wrap up, Tennisha shares information about her course, Cybersecurity Careers: Getting Started as a Penetration Tester, which is available on LinkedIn Learning.

Make sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and leave us a review. Stay tuned for more exciting episodes.

Cyber conferences:

1. Infosec-conferences.com: https://infosec-conferences.com/
2. The CyberWire: https://thecyberwire.com/events.html
3. Defcon: https://defcon.org/
4. BSides Security: https://infosec-conferences.com/event-series/bsides/

Social Media

Tennisha Martin: Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Website
AI: Decodes the System: Website, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok

Transcript

00:01.16
aidecodes
Tennisha Martin is the founder and executive director of black girls hack Bgh Foundation a national cyber security nonprofit organization dedicated to providing education and resources to underserved communities and increasing the diversity in cyber. She has worked in a consulting capacity for over fifteen years and in her spare time is a cyber instructor mentor and redteamethicalhacker. Yes, I said ethical hacker what does that mean you'll find out in a few minutes minutes but she's a advocate for diversity and cyber and um the executive suites.

00:34.24
Tennisha Martin
Thank you for having me.

00:34.35
aidecodes
Hi tennysha welcome to the show I'm so glad to have you here I know we were talking about it in the pre part but I'm so glad to have you on the show and I'm really excited to jump into this conversation about cyber. But first um, you have 5 master's degrees and.

00:51.29
Tennisha Martin
You.

00:51.86
aidecodes
I didn't know that so when I read that I was in shock and I was like oh my gosh. What made you decide to jump into cyber and to focus on that with the ° and feel free to also talk about what those degrees are as well.

01:03.90
Tennisha Martin
Sure, um, so um I do have ° um the first one was in healthcare care policy and management. The second one is in it t the third one is in cybersec security. The fourth one's in digital forensics and then the last one was um, an Nba um, and.

01:17.50
aidecodes
I will.

01:19.82
Tennisha Martin
The last three I think were probably a lot more intentional. Um, because as I was going through my my school from when I did the cybersecurity one I wasn't getting any of the um hands on that I needed um and wanted. Um, a lot of the jobs that I was applying for. They wanted me to have hands-on um, experience and I wanted to be able to you know, communicate that experience during my interviews but I wasn't getting um any of that through my classes. You know the classes were very much so talking about Education. Um theory.

01:33.30
aidecodes
Um, more.

01:47.37
aidecodes
Are.

01:50.60
Tennisha Martin
Um, and not so much the practice not so much like the hands-on so I kept going back to school to try to you know, get a little bit more hands-on and and I wasn't getting it and in the end um the Nba was just because my end goal is to become a chief information security officer. So you know I think above all else I need to understand the. The business of cybersecurity as much as I understand the technical things so you know it it makes sense in my mind. Um, you know once you get past the you know hey I wanted to at some point go to medical school. Um, but you know past that health care one you know I think everything else has been.

02:17.14
aidecodes
Um.

02:25.35
Tennisha Martin
Towards me being more technical and being able to you know, serve in a cyber security and at a CAC says so for somebody's fortune company one day

02:36.11
aidecodes
I love it. Um, like 1 that's amazing. It makes sense to me as you walk through it the first one you were thinking 1 thing then after that you started going down the path that you're on now today said totally makes sense I know for you and I we first met on clubhouse and then I was like hey Tanisha can you come talk to these. Youth in Baltimore who are interested in um, going to college and talking to them about careers. So one of the things I really appreciate about you and value about you whether we were on clubhouse or even when you helped to volunteer. You're always about helping people to understand cyber helping them to understand how they too can get into the space like what makes you. Make that your purpose I guess is best way to ask you that question.

03:16.35
Tennisha Martin
Yeah I think that when I was trying to get into cybersecurity I was not finding people were very helpful. Um I wasn't finding a lot of information. Um, and when I looked around I didn't see a lot of um, black people in the space particularly black women in this space so you know for me I.

03:22.80
aidecodes
Um I want.

03:29.50
aidecodes
Oh yeah.

03:33.48
Tennisha Martin
I think I live every day um, now trying to be the example that I had hoped that I had seen when I had first started out you know, looking for somebody um to look up to um I think the other thing is that.

03:43.98
aidecodes
Um, one.

03:46.60
Tennisha Martin
When I take a look at cybersecurity as a whole um, especially from the education perspective Most of the time we figure out what we want to be when we grow up um quote un quote unquote. Um, when we're in the younger you know like high school um in in some cases and in middle school right.

03:54.81
aidecodes
Um, for the first.

03:59.60
aidecodes
Why I knew.

04:03.73
Tennisha Martin
Um, a lot of the folks that I interact with through um my organization black girls hack. Um, they come to me and maybe their 20 s or their 30 s or their forty s or even higher but most of those folks have already gone to school um and despite my background I'm not ah in the ah habit of telling people like hey go back to school get more education get more education.

04:16.12
aidecodes
Um.

04:21.96
aidecodes
Um, specifically.

04:23.26
Tennisha Martin
I Feel like a large part of what it is that I'm trying to do you know is not so much you know hey go and get more theory. It's more so like let's do more practice so you know I think that if we're going to see you know changes and downstream things like you know, like machine learning and algorithms and just this decision makings that.

04:31.00
aidecodes
Are.

04:37.75
aidecodes
Right.

04:42.59
Tennisha Martin
Determine things like how much medicine we should be taking or whether or not somebody should go to Jail or not those decision systems. Ah you know need more diversity. They need more young women. Um, who take a look at the algorithms who take a look at the space and say you know hey we need to make a difference. You know? So for me, you know.

04:45.78
aidecodes
Um, come on.

05:01.67
Tennisha Martin
Talking to those people I think helps to expose people to cybersecurity and let them know that there's a career out there so that they have more time to be able to you know do research and try to you know, get to a point where they're able to have beast strategic about their careers.

05:16.95
aidecodes
So You caught out a few things that I want to take you back to So I Understand what you said but I want to make sure for the audience they get it. You said something about the algorithms that either help predict I'll just say predictive analytics or predict who should go to Jail who should what medicines you should take talk a little bit more about that. And what do you mean by having diverse voices in that space.

05:39.85
Tennisha Martin
Sure, um, so when we take a look at um, you know how we decide things like Medicine I just I always default to the criminal justice system in health care. Um, there are systems where people say you know hey this is the process that you should go through to make those decisions.

05:49.48
aidecodes
Um, you know.

05:55.72
Tennisha Martin
Um, and a lot of those times that that process has bias in it right? it it takes a look at things like for example, the history of you know what's been going on and sometimes that history can be very um, ah discriminatory especially towards people of color. Um, especially when you take a look at existing statistics. So.

05:58.39
aidecodes
Right.

06:14.97
Tennisha Martin
When you're trying to figure out whether or not you know a person is more likely to reoffend for example, um you know that's going to be based off of previous data. Um, and that previous data might be skewed to the fact that for example, certain systems like the Justice system and police systems. You know may have been intentionally targeting people of color right.

06:18.50
aidecodes
I.

06:33.91
aidecodes
Ima.

06:34.25
Tennisha Martin
Um, and what we want to see is that we want people to be able to call out that bias as it exists and say hey we need to take a look at different data that maybe is not so discriminatory because when we're developing these systems that are going to be deciding things like the health care you know, um, who are going to be deciding the the criminal justice.

06:38.12
aidecodes
Right.

06:54.34
Tennisha Martin
Want to be able to have systems that are as unbiased as possible. Um I always tell people the story of um how my mother was getting ready to do um a ah Kidney Um, she was in renal failure and she needed a kidney.

07:08.20
aidecodes
Um.

07:08.56
Tennisha Martin
Um, and for Kidneys that's one of those um areas of medicine where there's like a race adjustment to whereas you know they don't just look at the numbers human per human you know they decide whether or not um, somebody's going to be able to get a Kidney based on an adjustment for Race you know, which is why they say that you know.

07:15.18
aidecodes
Um, who.

07:22.60
aidecodes
Wow.

07:27.11
Tennisha Martin
Black people are different in some way and therefore maybe not be qualified for a Kidney who that they would otherwise get like. For example, if they were white. Um and you know I think that those types of adjustments. Um that are made are because you know they did not base those algorithms off of data that was unbiased. You know again where.

07:29.40
aidecodes
Um, will.

07:33.30
aidecodes
Are.

07:42.78
aidecodes
Are.

07:46.57
Tennisha Martin
Taking a look at um, you know systems that are learning from what's come before us and I kind of think about that as garbage and garbage out. You know if you're not putting good data in there then you're going to get you know skewed numbers that you then feel like you have to adjust and you know I think that on a most human basis.

07:52.58
aidecodes
Right.

08:01.95
aidecodes
Um.

08:04.90
Tennisha Martin
You know we need more women in the space to be able to call that out to do that research and to identify those biases. You know earlier in their career so that when they go to school you know and they decide to major in math or computer science or whatever it is that they you know dream about doing that they can take a look at some of those.

08:21.86
aidecodes
I am.

08:22.99
Tennisha Martin
Ideas and research them and try to find better ways. Um for those systems.

08:26.59
aidecodes
You hit on so much in that I want to point pull out 2 points 1 around criminal justice like I think back to like stop and frisk in New York and I think back to programs I'm familiar with like the sta programs where they would go. It would say they would put cops on dots. Or they would say here's the data and the data says they're in the but the crime is happening in the black community. So. That's what we're gonna send more cops and it's actually like a bit of confirmation bias because you put cops in anywhere long enough. They're gonna see crime and then even with stop and frisk and if you're not putting them in other neighborhoods. You're not gonna see crime so that's what you get.

09:01.22
Tennisha Martin
Right.

09:03.77
aidecodes
The data being skewed and then was stopping frisk I think they had stopped 400000 people and then we found out like some ridiculous number like very small percentage of people they stop actually had something on them I'm like if you would have taken that same approach to a predominantly white community like. Come on y'all they've done blind studies on pulling people over and like taking race out of the fact I'm just pulling over people and they've seen like drug ah offenses happen almost equally. But if you target 1 community then your data is only gonna say it this only happens in old old school harlem. Not so hot. Whatever they call it now.

09:30.28
Tennisha Martin
All right.

09:40.80
aidecodes
But this only happens in this neighborhood because you put police in that neighborhood and therefore you're going to find something if you're looking for the other piece. The other piece you said I think was very important was around like the health care around what you're saying around the Kidney like I think back to someone was telling me an example about how there was something. There was a male and female doctor. But I think they were working on a female patient.

09:41.18
Tennisha Martin
Um.

09:44.33
Tennisha Martin
Right.

10:00.10
aidecodes
But on the female where they were trying to do something was gonna be slightly different or thinking about police Best for police officers are made mostly for men but for a female that could actually cause an issue based on where her best is built due to how our organs are a little bit different. So It's just interesting how you're bringing up things about just. Understanding the community understanding how Bias is happening because it happens all over the place.

10:24.60
Tennisha Martin
Yeah, it most certainly does um and those 2 examples that you brought up the stop and frisk and the vesk you know those are just you know I think some of the ones that are more high profile but we also think see things you know where we have a lot of systems that are supposed to be able to do facial recognition.

10:33.28
aidecodes
Riot.

10:36.88
aidecodes
The her.

10:39.12
Tennisha Martin
And you know studies have shown that those facial mechanism systems especially by you know some of your you know your favorite high profile companies are biased in that you know they have very high error rates specifically among black women. You know So what that means is that when you have these these systems and they're supposed to be saying you know? yes this person did it.

10:48.81
aidecodes
Okay.

10:56.63
Tennisha Martin
Or they're supposed to be trying to figure out you know whether this person committed this crime or you know robbed this bank right? It's going to air more on black faces which means that we're going to be you know, um, incarcerated unjustly right? you know which is going to affect our ability to be able to provide for our families and it'll you know impact So many different things so you know.

10:58.57
aidecodes
By.

11:05.33
aidecodes
Um.

11:09.95
aidecodes
Um.

11:16.13
Tennisha Martin
There are a lot of different systems that we can point out that um are very dependent on decisioning systems and these systems are based off of you know Algorithms Um, and you know we need people to take a look at the data we need people to take a look at the algorithms and you know call out the bias where it is and find a better way.

11:23.47
aidecodes
Right.

11:33.16
aidecodes
I want.

11:35.25
Tennisha Martin
You know, figure out you know where we can make adjustments so that we can have more unbiased systems and in order for us to do that. You know we need people to be able to do the research but you know I'm not in like I said I'm not in a position to be like you know hey you know you person who's been in your career for 20 years go back to school and do this right.

11:43.19
aidecodes
Right.

11:52.30
aidecodes
Um, ah yeah, are.

11:53.76
Tennisha Martin
Um, because again, that's causing more money for school and you know I don't I don't want that for anybody's life. Um, but which is why I think it's important that we you know reach back to the kids who are younger who you know still have their educations in front of them so that they can you know take a look.

12:06.33
aidecodes
Who.

12:10.44
Tennisha Martin
At these issues and be able to see them when they're thinking about doing things like you know science for your projects or research projects or you know dissertations or whatever it is that they're you know, thinking about doing you know because these are problems that I think impact our community um in so many different ways and need to be addressed and you know we need to see more women.

12:16.93
aidecodes
Plants.

12:29.88
Tennisha Martin
Um, and minority people in the space because a lot of times like the same issues that we have in the black community also exist in a Latin community. You know, for example, right? So you know we need to you know? So I'm I'm very passionate about as much as I am for black women advocating on Behalf of my latin.

12:38.18
aidecodes
Um.

12:45.47
aidecodes
Right.

12:47.80
Tennisha Martin
Brothers and sisters because again you know their community has like the same sort of issues as we have and we need to see more diversity in the space. You know as a penteer I don't see a lot of women in the space I Definitely don't see um a lot of people in color in the space. So you know I think that's something that we need to change and you know.

13:03.20
aidecodes
Um, who are um.

13:06.89
Tennisha Martin
In some cases we need to go further back so that we can get people before they you know, figure out what they want to do.

13:13.80
aidecodes
I love it. Thank you for this work because this is so important. Um I want to talk a little bit about buzzwords and often terms like cyber algorithms ai all these things feel like just bud work buzzwords. I know in particular cyber security is one of the top things that chief data officers or chief technologies officers are thinking about in my field which is government data. But um, how do you explain cyber to those kids you were just talking about so I have a 2 year own ni and seven year old oldies and I always ask this question. How would you. Explain cyber to my nieces in a way that they could understand.

13:50.39
Tennisha Martin
Um I think I would probably explain it to them by saying that you know you're going to most kids play games right? and they you know as a part of those games they may type something into another player or they may enter information in about themselves and you don't want people you know, seeing that information.

13:54.95
aidecodes
Are you are. Are.

14:05.31
aidecodes
Poor.

14:07.00
Tennisha Martin
Right? So in order to protect that information we have to put security and cybersec securityity in place. It's meant to make sure that we stay safe right? because you don't the same way that like if you're you know going to and into a room and you're changing clothes. For example, you might close a window. Um you want to make sure that you know nobody's supposed to see anything that they're not supposed to see.

14:17.56
aidecodes
More yeah.

14:25.60
Tennisha Martin
Um, so we have to take so put things in place to make sure we keep it safe I Think that's probably how I would explain it to at least the the younger um person because you know for a lot of kids you know, spend a lot of time like for example, when you know their I things or their you know, um fire tablets or whatever.

14:30.88
aidecodes
Um I love it. Um.

14:44.31
aidecodes
Um, yeah.

14:44.35
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know and they're playing the games. They're you know, doing things and interacting um a lot of their education is on a screen somewhere. You know it's not necessarily you know, even if they're doing something as simple as coloring. They might be coloring on their tablet as opposed to you know, actually crayons you know, messing up the walls right? so.

14:50.17
aidecodes
I.

14:58.54
aidecodes
Um, such her.

15:02.98
aidecodes
Um, so.

15:03.70
Tennisha Martin
You know I think that their frame of reference is a lot different than you know ours when we were told you know hey go outside and play you know because you know a lot of times people now for so many reasons are you know? Maybe it's not so safe to go outside. You know you need to stay inside and do something.

15:09.55
aidecodes
Right.

15:19.84
aidecodes
Um, no on her.

15:19.91
Tennisha Martin
So you know what is that going to be you needs to be educational needs to expand your mind and you know ah allow you the ability to grow and and I think that these kids especially ones who were basically born with a you know? ah a tablet in their hands are going to be in a much better place. Educationally um, you know than.

15:29.47
aidecodes
Brand speaking.

15:36.77
Tennisha Martin
You know? For example, my mother's generation where they didn't have computers growing up and they didn't have you know like electronics really you know? So um I think that they're in a much better position to be able to understand the way the computers work and the way the security works just by you know, interacting with these things that they do every day.

15:39.78
aidecodes
Um, and.

15:54.49
aidecodes
That I love your explanation I will borrow it I will accredit it to you but that's a very good way to explain it because my niece one of them lives on roadblox one of them lives same one lives on Youtube and she's on roblox meek making friends and stuff like that of course under her parents' guidance. But. She's in that world playing interacting I love the explanation I want to ask you another one. How would you describe ethical hacking and you could take this up to a higher grade. Let's say for a fifth grader because I know a lot of people are like hacking is a bad thing. You shouldn't hack what is ethical hacking.

16:29.70
Tennisha Martin
Um, so ethical hacking is basically trying to get into someone's computer or application. But you have permission right? There's 2 types of people who do it right? There are people who have permission and there are people who are not right? So if you try to break into your.

16:38.76
aidecodes
Um, 7

16:46.10
Tennisha Martin
Brother's account to try to post something crazy on his wall to try to embarrass him. You don't have permission so that's not ethical right? But if you have permission. Let's say you're posting something for your parents birthday. You can log into their account and post a special message for them. Then you have permission. That's basically the difference between ethical hacking and um.

16:49.85
aidecodes
Right.

17:03.70
aidecodes
Um, we had.

17:05.90
Tennisha Martin
Just hacking. It's having permission permission. Um, and I think that it's important to note that generally you need written permission. Um, when we're talking about hacking but you know in general it it comes down to a matter of consent like whether or not, you're allowed to do it or not.

17:13.52
aidecodes
Um.

17:22.41
aidecodes
I Love it that that is the easy say for listeners to understand for sure and I thank you for that? Um, so want to shift a little bit so and to really like dig into Cyber security. So as technology advances and things become more digital. We're all online.

17:23.64
Tennisha Martin
Yeah.

17:38.36
aidecodes
We're about to be living online feels like it with the metaverse if not already right? Even my niece and roblox like she thinks. That's her little world so understanding Cybersecurity is going to become more important for all of us. Can you talk through some real world examples that you can share with the audience about Cyber security. How does it actually play out in the real world.

17:58.75
Tennisha Martin
Um, absolutely um, a lot of people. Um, when they tend to approach like their computer systems. They think about ease of use so they may say you know hey I have um you know the same password for my email and for my you know my Youtube and for my you know my bank account. You know.

18:04.96
aidecodes
Um, yeah.

18:09.32
aidecodes
And I hate.

18:15.98
Tennisha Martin
As long as there's something I can remember and they think that because somebody else doesn't but what they don't take into consideration is the fact that you know I think almost on a daily basis. We're seeing systems being breached right? We're seeing um someone get access to your password and if they know for example that you know that email and that password belong to you.

18:23.76
aidecodes
My hand.

18:34.91
Tennisha Martin
They can try that same email and password on a lot of different sites to see what they can get access to and I think that people you know when they're considering their security. They try to say hey as long as somebody doesn't know this password right? But it's really just a matter of time if you're racing against time like if you have.

18:34.92
aidecodes
Um, yeah.

18:51.61
aidecodes
Um, as well. Um.

18:53.38
Tennisha Martin
Like for example, a 4 digit pen there you know I think it's something like 10000 combinations based on that right? So it's only a matter of time and I can try all of those ten thousands and you know figure out what it is the same goes for your password. It's only a matter of time before your password gets breached. So you're almost like.

19:03.31
aidecodes
Right.

19:10.88
Tennisha Martin
You know you want the bad guys to be playing whack-a-mole right? You want them to you know by the time they try to get your password because they've gotten in in a breach. You've already changed your password because you're using good good practices so things like changing your password not using the same password you know everywhere? um.

19:12.10
aidecodes
My.

19:24.91
aidecodes
Are are.

19:28.66
Tennisha Martin
Making sure that your password is complex. Um, when we take a look year after year at some of these breaches and some of these passwords. Um, except where it's not allowed a lot of people have passwords like password 1 2 3 you know 4 or something or they'll will say 1 2 3 4 with an exclamation point right.

19:39.48
aidecodes
Here.

19:46.60
Tennisha Martin
And they'll be like you know hey this is complex I'm doing a good job. But the thing is is that when we look at these password dictionaries. We see a lot of these same you know passwords you know if your favorite team is like the the broncos then it would be like Broncos 23

19:56.16
aidecodes
Um, that is over it.

20:02.33
Tennisha Martin
You know, exclamation point right? and we'll see a lot of these same passwords reused. So um I think that it's important that you use a different password for different sites and I think the more that you care about something the more complex you're going to make that password especially when we're talking about something like your email.

20:14.44
aidecodes
Whether.

20:19.20
Tennisha Martin
And all the other applications that you use you know, allow you to reset your password with that particular email you want to make sure at a minimum that your email is kept safe so you know making sure that you've got a password that's relatively long and you can use a password manager. Um I'm getting old I will not.

20:35.38
aidecodes
Um I was just thinking about that to him.

20:35.72
Tennisha Martin
Recommend that anybody try to remember all of the passwords because I can't remember you know what day it is or who I am most days so you know you can use a password manager. Um, and just remember what the password is for that Password manager. Um, so that you can make sure that you're trying to keep yourself safe.

20:49.89
aidecodes
Um.

20:53.30
Tennisha Martin
Um, I think that that's important because you know as you said we're moving and so many different things are you know going to be on the internet. You know someone mentioned like the refrigerators on the on the um internet and like you know, maybe you're washing and dryer and like all random devices right? So it's like if people were able to break into those.

20:57.39
aidecodes
Um, power.

21:03.21
aidecodes
Met.

21:12.47
Tennisha Martin
Then they'll be able to you know interact with things that you're using on a day-to-day basis right? which will affect your ability to to be be able to feel safe so you know you can protect yourself just by you know, making sure that you do things like you know, changing your password um frequently making sure that it's complex and not using the same password.

21:17.49
aidecodes
Um, yeah.

21:31.14
Tennisha Martin
On a lot of different sites. Um, ah websites. The other thing is take a look at some of the things that are connected to your internet and see you know whether or not they have a default password Like for example, your printers. Um, and you know other devices that maybe like your um video game consoles.

21:39.92
aidecodes
Moving away get along.

21:49.21
Tennisha Martin
You know anything that might be connected to your your network so that you can make sure that you know you're not giving somebody a easy way in.

21:58.44
aidecodes
That's some great points and I know when you probably said the thing about the password being password and people having 3 3 is her 4 digit code that is real for folks that I think she wasn't saying that just in Jess like it is real that people use the word password as the password in 1 2 3 4

22:07.44
Tennisha Martin
Um.

22:14.32
aidecodes
As they're as a number for 4 digit code which to me is like crazy when I start hearing like what was really coming out of that. But it's a good point because some people just want something as easy and they're like no one's gonna figure out I use the word passor for my password. Ah they did so that's.

22:28.90
Tennisha Martin
Right? Or they'll be like I changed the you know the s and the password to a number fives or yeah, right? So like this is top secret. Nobody's going to know they're going to know like.

22:34.61
aidecodes
Right? to a dollar so $4 someone. Yes, they know they they see all the stuff that comes out, especially if they're if you're able to look at the data on all the passwords when you have a breach like you're saying. Very clear to state which are some more is most commonly used and you can easily try to access accounts using those very good. Um, good advice for sure I want to talk about black girls hack. So you created black girls hack um to share knowledge and resources to help black girls and women break through barriers to careers and information security. And cybersecurity or information technology and cybersecurity. What led you to start this company and what gap were you trying to fill other than the obvious one go deep.

23:18.10
Tennisha Martin
Ah, yeah, so um, it was literally based off of my own personal struggles as I was trying to you know change careers and get into cybersecurity. Um I realized as I look around you know, having been in the it space for you know decades at that point.

23:23.64
aidecodes
1

23:35.41
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know when I looked around you don't tend to see a lot of people of color. Um, especially women of color. Um in technical roles. You know you might say you know oh I see them and you know human resources or hey you know the the jobs that you know people tend to think of is more pink jobs or more jobs that are associated with women right.

23:35.47
aidecodes
Um.

23:39.75
aidecodes
Correct.

23:45.47
aidecodes
My number.

23:54.32
Tennisha Martin
But there's not any reason why we don't see them or that we shouldn't see them in technical um positions. Um, so I think that it's very important that we start to see um you know more women in that space and so when I looked at the the industry and I looked around me.

23:54.44
aidecodes
Yep.

24:00.26
aidecodes
I.

24:11.59
Tennisha Martin
You know I realized that there were a lot of people who were also trying to get into cybersecurity and that were also having a hard time. Um I think that the 1 thing you know when I approached um, getting into cybersecurity I tried to take it from a you know? Ah I'm going to put everything in their face like I'm going to make sure that I've got enough certifications I've got enough.

24:17.28
aidecodes
Um, waymo.

24:28.69
aidecodes
Um, allow me alone.

24:30.26
Tennisha Martin
Ah, education that you know nobody can say that you know I'm not good enough where I don't deserve to be here right? But in reality you know I was really trying to go about getting into the industry alone. You know going through the front door fighting against you know systems that are again have some of that um bias that we're talking about in the resume scanning right.

24:34.49
aidecodes
I.

24:41.25
aidecodes
Grant.

24:48.60
aidecodes
Yep.

24:50.60
Tennisha Martin
So you know when I took a look at that you know I realized that there were other people. Um, who were also trying to get into this industry and you know I was like I can't necessarily help myself but I can definitely help the people who are coming behind me to make their careers a little bit more strategic a little bit more efficient in terms of you know how they get to.

24:59.95
aidecodes
And more.

25:08.16
Tennisha Martin
Success because that that has a elastic impact on like their future generation their kids their kids kids um so I may not be able to change you know? For example, my own situation. Um, but you know by doing the work that I'm doing you know I can help them to get more.

25:11.53
aidecodes
Um, nation.

25:19.50
aidecodes
Um, or what.

25:24.10
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know certifications help them to understand what the thought processes that go into it and then help them to be able to get jobs right? And once they've got those jobs then they're able to you know we call it you know securing the bag right? Um, they're able to get the jobs and I T they're able to get the jobs in. Um.

25:29.73
aidecodes
Are. Um, yeah.

25:42.68
Tennisha Martin
In in cybersecurity and we get the added benefit of you know the future people who need kid Kidney transplants and the future people who you know end up with legal Struggle struggles Um, don't have to worry about systems that are going to say that they're more likely to offend just because of the color of their skin. You know, um we want people to.

25:49.85
aidecodes
Um, right.

25:57.53
aidecodes
Are.

26:02.46
Tennisha Martin
Have be able to you know receive judgment in an unbiased Way. You know they say that Justice is supposed to be Blind. We want to actually make it blind in order to do that. We need to you know change the industry from what it is. You know to add more diversity of thought and more approaches to problem solving and. You know data. Um, for example, so we need to see more women in those spaces we need to see more people of color in those spaces people from different backgrounds. Um, because again you know so many things go into what makes a person who they are and that also you know determines how they make decisions and how they take a look at Data. So.

26:38.63
aidecodes
Yeah.

26:40.56
Tennisha Martin
You know I think it's important that you know we start to work on getting more diversity into these spaces.

26:44.16
aidecodes
Oh my gosh. Yeah, totally agree on so many different levels and even just having folks who can see it from a different lens like you just said diversity of thought because you can literally put 5 people in a room with the same problem each one is going to answer that problem or solve it based on their experiences. But if the room leans 1 race then you're gonna likely get people who probably have similar cultural backgrounds and et cetera and they're not gonna be able to have that other lens whether it's a room full of white people room for black people room full latin next like they're just starting things that we do have in common just by culture. But then you add diversity of. Thought diversity of different variing abilities diversity of language diversity of culture. You're be able to ask questions and then to make that process better. Um I think that's so critical and I'm excited that you're doing that in the work that you're doing. Can you talk a bit about what does it look like to hang out with you all during any given week like I see a lot of cool events happening. If I were someone following you all on Instagram which will be available in the show notes or just following your organization. What can I expect to happen if I want to get involved.

27:48.60
Tennisha Martin
Um, absolutely so first of all I want to say that um anybody is welcome to join us to come and hack with this. It doesn't matter. You know your race your color or you know how you classify yourself. Um, you're welcome to come. It doesn't matter if you're a white or you know if you're male or whatever the case may be. You're welcome to come.

28:04.23
aidecodes
Um, yeah.

28:05.15
Tennisha Martin
Um, we have a amazing community. Um, which is very supportive. We do mentoring and resume reviews and um mock interviews and study groups for different certifications on a weekly basis. We have like hands-on hacking classes. So we do a Friday night labs which is basically just you know hey.

28:24.46
aidecodes
Um, nice.

28:24.84
Tennisha Martin
This is the ethical hacking skill in practice like come in practice with us. Um, we have an intro to capture the flag because a lot of times people say hey I think I want to get into cybersecurity but I'm not quite sure. Um, where do I I start or what I might be good at or you know I don't developer I'm not a developer I I don't necessarily know how to code what can I do.

28:35.80
aidecodes
Correct.

28:43.87
Tennisha Martin
You know outside of that right? So capture the flags I think are a great way for people to be able to see the types of things that are done in cybersecurity and kind of figure out what they might be interested in right because it's kind of like a choose your own adventure and you know you have the ability I think to Define who it is that you are so.

28:48.91
aidecodes
I went.

29:00.31
Tennisha Martin
That's the other thing I Love about our community is that there's so many different people who are in so many different spaces. So it's like you can probably find somebody who's interested in your subsectors of like I'm trying to operate at the at the space of like cyber security and maybe health care and maybe you know. However, you want to define yourself.

29:02.24
aidecodes
Um, we have.

29:19.20
Tennisha Martin
You'll find people who are interested in some of the things and I think for me, that's the best part is the community. You know people that are around that are you know saying hey I'm trying to do this thing I need some help or hey I'm trying to solve this problem I don't know how to you know, do it and sometimes it's like hey I'm working on a coding problem or sometimes it's just like.

29:30.16
aidecodes
Um, I know.

29:37.50
Tennisha Martin
You know hey I've got a boss that you know wants me to do this and and I don't feel comfortable. You know so just having somebody to talk to um, especially people who understand what it is um I've got you know my day one group of friends that you know have been around forever for me. But you know they're not.

29:40.74
aidecodes
Um, and laugh.

29:53.65
Tennisha Martin
People who are in cybersecurity that I can talk to about like the day-to-day things like the actual work that I'm doing right? So having friends that are in the cybersecurity space people who I can talk about you know? Oh there's ah, a day zero or there's a zero day or there's a.

29:55.14
aidecodes
Um, elsewhere.

30:00.35
aidecodes
Um I am.

30:09.92
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know a threat or there's a you know specific you know hack against this thing you know that I'm trying to understand I can talk to that with my cybersecurity friends whereas you know, maybe my day one friends you know don't necessarily understand so you know again like community being able to you know, talk to people who can understand what it is and I'm going through.

30:12.47
aidecodes
We have him.

30:29.34
Tennisha Martin
Um, and not feel like I'm speaking a different language that that to me is one of the best parts.

30:34.47
aidecodes
Yeah, love it because at some point folks are gonna be like what are you talking about ah captured a flag What do you mean by pen testing what are all these things but to be in a room where you can speak that common language. That's super helpful. But for those who don't know how to speak that language 1 step is like. Hey come to black girls hat do these events but what are other steps that you recommend for people who are interested in entering the cyber security place space. How would you do it.

30:58.98
Tennisha Martin
Um, yeah I would tell them to join all the groups. There are a lot of different organizations that represent different subsectors within the cybersecurity. So they're obviously you know race based ones. Um, you know there's black girls hack blacks and Cyber Um, ah, black girls in Cyber Um, there's.

31:08.74
aidecodes
Um, while.

31:11.47
aidecodes
Right.

31:16.91
Tennisha Martin
Um, once for our Latin um brethren and sister and um riesis is the um one of the organizations we work verycoat closely with the organization for you know, specifically girls in the space. Um women cyberjitsu girls in security. Um.

31:22.15
aidecodes
Um, and.

31:34.30
Tennisha Martin
So join a lot of organizations. You don't have to just join one. It's not like you know it's like ah you know you pick one and that's your choice forever and ever so you can join a lot of different organizations. A lot of different groups have different things that are going on right? So as you figure out, you know what it is that you're interested in.

31:38.85
aidecodes
Right? And if you're down.

31:51.49
Tennisha Martin
You know you can kind of like skew you know where you spend your time you know based on the organizations that are giving you what you need for your personal plan for I call it world domination. You know, whatever it is that you're trying to do. Um you can find the organization that supports you and what it is that you're doing you know, but it's good to know.

31:55.51
aidecodes
Um, or.

31:59.24
aidecodes
He ago.

32:08.90
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know, especially what it is that they've got going on so we use meetup we use um Linkedin and our social media pages. For example, when we have things going on the other thing that I would suggest if you're interested in cybersecurity is to go to a cybersecurity conference. Um like def con or.

32:19.40
aidecodes
Um, what then you.

32:24.59
Tennisha Martin
Um, you know there's some ones that are closer like the bsides or um, there's 1 in the Dmv area. It's called shmoocon. Um, ah a lot of these conferences you know have a meeting of the minds where they talk about you know things that are being done in cybersecurity and you can take a look at some of that research and some of those talks and try to figure out.

32:31.43
aidecodes
Um, and.

32:42.49
Tennisha Martin
You know what? you might be interested in the other thing that I would say is you know, bring yourself to whatever it is that you're going to do inside security Um, assuming that you're not fresh out of school. Maybe you've got you know some time and like hospitality or maybe you've got time in Health care right.

32:52.30
aidecodes
Where.

33:00.22
aidecodes
Um I will.

33:00.43
Tennisha Martin
Take that experience in Healthcare care and look for a healthcare care organization that needs cybersecurity help all Healthcare organizations need cybersecurity help So like don't abandon your experience whether that be like you know hey I've worked as a you know a G greeter or someone in sales you know, take that experience um to a cybersec securityity organization.

33:04.74
aidecodes
Um, I am yes baby.

33:19.60
aidecodes
Um I.

33:19.28
Tennisha Martin
That needs that type of help so don't feel like you have to start over and you have to go back and get an entry level job. You know you can you know if you you target your Linkedin you target your resume appropriately you can bring that experience and bring who you are as a person today.

33:22.84
aidecodes
Um, right.

33:36.13
Tennisha Martin
To that job as opposed to feeling like you have to start all over.

33:37.73
aidecodes
I Think those are really really good points like getting active seeing what's out there. What would you say to the person who says do I need to go back to school for this.

33:48.54
Tennisha Martin
Oh no, no ma'am. Um, no sir you do not need to go back to school. Um I think that once you get like maybe a bachelor's and and maybe like a master's degree. Um, that at that point you need to you know work on the hands on piece. There's so much out here.

33:56.14
aidecodes
About.

34:06.75
Tennisha Martin
You to learn you know people call it Youtube University you can use Youtube to find information you can find um you know groups that are actually doing work in these spaces and use it to learn. Um I like ah there's a lot of different training platforms out here in cybersecurity. We have a lot of partnerships with um those types of training providers.

34:09.83
aidecodes
Um, you know f.

34:25.64
Tennisha Martin
That we have free memberships for our members so that you can actually get and you know train yourself get the hands on skills that you need and then be able to take those skills. Um, and once you understand what it is that you're doing um you know for example, like an at home lab.

34:27.52
aidecodes
Ohio.

34:33.57
aidecodes
Um, what's awesome.

34:37.59
aidecodes
Yeah.

34:39.51
Tennisha Martin
You can use that experience and be able to talk about it in interviews talk about how you can bring your experience from you know, whatever it is that you've been doing the past couple of years you know to this job and make you better at that doing that job you know because um, you know as much as and recruiters are looking for people with specific skills. They're also looking for people who can explain what it is that they do and you know how they can bring that value to those organizations so you know I I think that as much as it is a matter of Knowledge. It's much a matter of of communication being able to explain what it is that you do and the value that you bring.

35:00.97
aidecodes
Um, ah.

35:11.86
aidecodes
1 of the things I love about when you used to do your or I'm not sure if y'all still do them which I'll used to do the cyber women wednesdays and people would come and ask you questions like how do I after I get these certifications I haven't worked in cyber how do I get. Ah, job like I don't have the experience and one of the things I remember you saying was like putting up sites and even now you're talking about like when you're going through it. Can you talk a little bit more about that. So once I get the certifications once I feel like I'm I mean I'm where I need to be on that side. What are some of the ways to get in. Get in it and actually secure the job and secure the bag for world domination.

35:50.50
Tennisha Martin
Absolutely so um I think that and I miss cyber when or Wednesdays we haven't done those in and in such a while. But um, you know there was so much information that was shared during those so you know we should probably bring it back in some some form or another.

35:57.69
aidecodes
Oh yeah, that was a lot of information.

36:04.39
Tennisha Martin
Um, but to answer your question. Um I think that you know setting up for example, like a portfolio or setting up like ah, a github or um, if you're a penetration tester For example, um I often suggest to people that they set up you know, For example, a website could be like a static page where they have for example.

36:09.87
aidecodes
Hang your hand.

36:20.47
aidecodes
Um.

36:21.20
Tennisha Martin
Like the walkthroughs of explaining how to walk through that information um walk through the the the site like this is what I see you know these little ports that were open. This is what I decided to do based on seeing those ports. This is you know how I got in this is how I was able to escalate my privileges you know, basically walk a beginner through that.

36:23.29
aidecodes
A.

36:28.85
aidecodes
Nice.

36:40.25
Tennisha Martin
Um, there's also opportunities to teach if you want to come and train and you know help teach people that was how I I learned a lot of the things that I did was you know by basically walking through these live on Youtube embarrassing myself and people looking at me like why don't you know this and I'm like I'm new like you are like I'm just you know took the chance and to put myself in front of the.

36:40.39
aidecodes
Um, the whole.

36:52.33
aidecodes
Um, right? um.

37:00.23
Tennisha Martin
Camera to you know and we were're going to walk through this together right? So you know and once you set up you know portfolio once you start walking through you know and that could be on Youtube that could be like on a Twitch stream. It could just be you writing it down on piece of paper you know, talk about that that process talk about some of your experiences talk about your approaches to problem solving because.

37:09.88
aidecodes
Um, nice.

37:18.79
Tennisha Martin
Again, they don't necessarily care that you've you know, not done it in a job. They care what you know how to do and like ah what value you're going to bring to the company right? So as long as being able to express that so you know in the absence of you know we'll say well hey do you have any work experience. Um, you know doing this and you're like all right I worked at. You know gap for the past four years you'd be like no but I bring you know a customer-facing um experience for the last you know 4 years that I've been working and I've been working on. Um you know these labs and what I'll do is I go through and I explain them to somebody who is non-technical.

37:46.45
aidecodes
Um I will.

37:54.23
aidecodes
Yeah.

37:56.14
Tennisha Martin
You know and this could be very very important to you know your company because you know after you do you know a penetration test. You have to do a readout you have to explain to the customer. What it is that you found what it is. They need to fix. So I've been basically practicing. You know how to do those readouts so that I can be able to effectively explain to non-technical stakeholders.

38:04.00
aidecodes
Um, right? hello.

38:16.13
Tennisha Martin
Why it is that it matters and you know how this ties into their business. So I think it's important that you know you be able to talk about what it is that you do especially get around the questions like well I don't see on your resume anything that has to do with penetration testing or hacking. No, you probably won't but if you check this web page or if you check this Youtube channel or if you check this, you know whatever the case may be then you can point out, you know what it is that you're doing that. Will you know, maybe distract them from the fact that you've haven't actually done this for a job as of yet. Yeah.

38:34.50
aidecodes
Right.

38:48.81
aidecodes
Um I love it. Plus there's so many job openings Grant There's a lot of job openings now period because we are at a deficit when it comes to skill employees on so many different levels but Cyber security is a thing I always see online I Know there's a.

38:58.15
Tennisha Martin
Absolutely.

39:03.91
aidecodes
I forgot the number but there's like predictions on how many jobs are goingnna in the future more is gonna be going online. We're thinking about web 3 and the future of the metaverse if that like gets a leg up I think it will but there's so many things that are gonna happen and I just I'm just happy that people are like you are in this and giving space for others to also be a part of this. So I know today we talked about cyber we talked a little bit about ethical hacking. Why do you think it's important for listeners to understand how cybersecurity works and ethical hacking works. Why do you think it's important and how will it impact their lives.

39:37.88
Tennisha Martin
Um, I think that it' impact their livess because um, you know it It helps you to take a look at yourself and how you're developing systems. Um what it is that penetration testers do is we try to break into systems with permission right? We try to find ways that people didn't think about.

39:53.90
aidecodes
Um, one. Okay.

39:53.93
Tennisha Martin
Um, and and and doing that you know we so tend to see things like the oasp top 10 which is basically here are the the top 10 mistakes that developers keep on making um so I think that you know no matter if you're a so computer science person that's interested in cybersecurity or if you're just a cybersec security person.

40:01.70
aidecodes
Yeah, well.

40:11.79
Tennisha Martin
You know, knowing those vulnerabilities helps you know what it is to look for and it also helps you to understand like you know how they're keeping your information safe because if you can see for example, like that when you go to put your information into a website that it doesn't have a lock on the page or that there is no certificate or that you know.

40:13.63
aidecodes
Yeah.

40:21.66
aidecodes
Um, and um.

40:26.16
aidecodes
My.

40:30.15
Tennisha Martin
There's you know so many you know Red flags are on the site. You know that you don't want to necessarily put any any privileged information any personal information into that website. So it helps you to be able to identify. You know the people who are going to keep your data safe versus the people who don't and then I think it also helps you as far as like.

40:36.38
aidecodes
Row.

40:48.26
Tennisha Martin
You know, figuring out what it is that you might be interested in right because if you really enjoy breaking into systems I tell people a time like I know how to to to code. But I choose not to you know I am so much more of a breaker than I am a maker you know so for me like I enjoy that you know.

40:57.00
aidecodes
Um, night life.

41:06.29
Tennisha Martin
Earlier. My career was quality as assurance you know trying to break the code that people developed and now it's you know, breaking into code that people developed but it's along the same types of type of lines. Um, and I think that you know just knowing um cybersecurity and ethical hacking is going to help you know your career no matter what it is that you do.

41:09.22
aidecodes
Um, but.

41:23.38
Tennisha Martin
Um, even if you're a salesperson or even you if you're you know a person that does something outside That's nontechnical. You can you know, bring and security concerns to your organization and help them to be able to identify you know, red flags within um, their their existing systems. Um, because I think that people are much more aware.

41:39.16
aidecodes
Um.

41:41.81
Tennisha Martin
Um, you mentioned the cyber security is like a Buzzword. It's something that people are you know, bringing up it for example in the news on a daily basis right? Um, we usually think about cyber security as an afterthought. It's something that you know you think about after it's been a breach or after you finish developing your system right? and I think that more. Um.

41:45.52
aidecodes
Oh yeah.

42:00.20
Tennisha Martin
In the future We need to start looking at to develop um including it in from the very beginning we doing the requirements gather we taking at the earlier steps of the software development lifecycle. We need to start you know, baking security in so that we have more secure systems. Um, and I think that you know even if you're a nontechnical person if you are pointing out to your organization.

42:17.45
aidecodes
Um, f.

42:19.31
Tennisha Martin
Like hey have we considered security hey have we considered like how to keep this safe or what the security requirements might be that that is going to bring value to the organization and they should appreciate that.

42:28.58
aidecodes
You know I agree because I'm so over one. My password is getting breached in some company breach because it's not enough but my fault Ah, but our passwords are everywhere on the dark web and everywhere else and I hate that So I'm thankful for people like you. Who are breaking into those systems with permission written permission just thankful for you trying to help increase access to people of color as well as um, women in particular and black women as well as Latina Latin X men and women. Um on this topic but I really appreciate it if folks want to get in contact with you.

42:46.78
Tennisha Martin
Correct.

43:03.94
aidecodes
Where can they find you.

43:05.67
Tennisha Martin
Um I am on all of the socials. So um I am miss taesha on Twitter um, also black girls hack on all of the platforms everywhere. Um, um, our social media person actually just told me that we've got you know? So um, a Tiktok now. Um I don't actually go over there because you know like I fear for my life but um, black girls hack has a presence on um, tiktok and on um, you know all of the social media. So at black girls hack. We are also on Linkedin. So if you're looking for a job where you're looking for a community.

43:26.37
aidecodes
Um, ya now you got to come you got to come.

43:39.25
Tennisha Martin
Um, our website is blackgirlshack.org um our membership. Um application is at blackgirlshack.org/membership. Um, everybody's welcome to join us to come hack with us. Um, and if we are not doing what it is that you you know think we should be then let us know we we can do a little bit of that too because we want to be a place for. You know everybody to feel welcome.

43:59.90
aidecodes
I Love it. Also let me know what are you promoting right? now. What's happening in your world I Want to give you space for that.

44:07.35
Tennisha Martin
Absolutely um, so this is national cyber security awareness month. So very excited about that. Um, yeah, we have share the mic in cyber um, which is going to be on Friday so you're probably going to get like freaking bombarded with so many people who are like talking about what people are working on. So um.

44:08.66
aidecodes
Um, what will.

44:23.10
aidecodes
Um, you know.

44:23.62
Tennisha Martin
Like retweet share all of those things that you see on um, share the mic and cyber. Um my very first Linkedin learning course just came out this week so I'm very excited about that so I would absolutely love. It's about how to get started in the career and penetration testing so I would absolutely love if everybody could check that out. It's maybe about 30 minutes long so it's ah it's a very short course but check it out.

44:28.63
aidecodes
Um, nice.

44:43.58
Tennisha Martin
Um, tell a friend and if you want to reach out to me. Um my dms are open on all of the platforms. So please feel free to reach out ask questions. Um and you know let me know how I can help.

44:55.63
aidecodes
Tanisha. Thank you so much for tonight I really enjoy this conversation and I look forward to talking to you and seeing you soon.

45:01.59
Tennisha Martin
Ah, right sounds good. Thank you for having me.